00:00:02: Welcome to Industry Insights, the EFM podcast presented by European Film Market of Berlinale.

00:00:08: This podcast series shines a light on highly-topical trendsetting industry issues.

00:00:13: It's designed as a compass for film year ahead helping professionals navigate fast changing creative landscape.

00:00:21: Industry Insight is a year round podcast co-founded by Creative Europe Media.

00:00:25: My name is Nunnu Karppinen 

00:00:27: I am COO and Head of International at Post-Control Helsinki.

00:00:31: And in today's episode, I discuss with Mavalda Duarte, Maria Tanjala... ...and Dr Pirita Pyykkönen Klauk who share insights on sustainability innovation.. ..and navigating the opportunities and challenges….

00:00:43: …of tech driven creative industries.

00:00:45: The conversation was recorded during this year's EFM.

00:00:49: Let us start.

00:00:55: Hello everybody!

00:00:55: Good morning.

00:00:57: My name is Nunnu Kartinen.

00:00:59: I come from Finland, where I am COO and head of international company called Post Control Helsinki.

00:01:05: It's a post production company but i'm thrilled to be

00:01:08: here

00:01:09: sharing the stage with these wonderful women.

00:01:11: it is very topical theme that we will discuss today.

00:01:15: The panel is organized in collaboration with the Erich Pomer Institute, and I was asked before we get going to unravel the secrets of these fantastic leaders... ...to tell you a little bit about Erich-Pomer Institute.

00:01:29: As probably known to many of you, Erich Pomer Institute is a professional training institute based here in Potsdam-Barbersberg not far from here.

00:01:38: It works with professionals from Germany and across Europe... ...with the mission to support education lifelong learning.. ..and professional development within media and film industries.

00:01:48: Its educational focus spans key areas such as business management legal aspects of the media sector Media tech and innovation And I was given heads up that they were will be an AI-related programme or a series of workshops that'll be launched in the next months, so keep an eye on Erich Pomer Institute's website and probably sign up for your newsletter.

00:02:13: designing resilience, not just reacting to crisis is something that we want talk about today.

00:02:21: Tech has sometimes framed us as something that happens in creative industries and I think we want to flip the perspective of

00:02:27: how

00:02:28: our panellists are actively shaping tech-driven business models that protect creative work strengthens ownership and enables long term sustainability.

00:02:40: We will be talking about tech but I want to recognise at this stage that resilience is something... ...that comes from the people who are running those companies.

00:02:53: So tech is a tool and it's system, structure,... ...but essentially companies themselves are constructs of human beings.

00:03:02: And their resilience is key as well, i think!

00:03:05: But anyways let us start finally with introductions.

00:03:08: please give warm welcome to Maria Tanjala.

00:03:14: We'll do this one by once on Maria.

00:03:16: The stage is yours.

00:03:17: Would you like to introduce yourself a little bit?

00:03:19: You are the one who brought us couple of visual aids as well

00:03:23: Of course, so good morning and thank everyone for joining this conversation.

00:03:27: I'm Maria Tangella.

00:03:28: I am co-founder of Film Chain.

00:03:30: we launched eight years ago right it wasn't exactly this stage but It's an EFM startup.

00:03:36: So there has been beautiful journey of eight years within the EFm family And uh...we looked at how need a platform in the film and TV industry, but then expanding it to games and other industries.

00:03:50: To manage revenue.

00:03:53: that is very inclusive... ...and gives access to money and financial data as close to real time.

00:04:02: So it's me and my co-founder, Irina who is also here today.

00:04:06: she comes from more of an economic and technical background.

00:04:10: I come form a film background.

00:04:12: Of course we have an entire team And We always try combine having experts in the creative industries In Film TV Who has decades of experience but also To bring in house tech members, which is also very important.

00:04:26: And having the team really following the vision is absolutely crucial in building resilient businesses.

00:04:34: Now we got to a very good stage where, uh... We operate globally and we are across America Asia Australia.

00:04:42: We have some fantastic partners who took this leap into the future And started trusting systems that were more automatic Jumped from manuals To technology-driven and um.. Were very grateful because Some of them have done it right From their early beginnings.

00:05:00: And our big vision is how to essentially bring transparency and build trust in the entire money flow.

00:05:08: So, uh... Our big vision from you know viewer-to-creator so we can empower everyone on an entire value chain through different technological solutions some could be for studios and enterprises.

00:05:24: it's a management system that is super complex deals with all of the complexities of financials, but also as a collection agent to bring trust and build that ecosystem for all the sales agents, financiers producer.

00:05:45: We looked at how we can give real-time access to your money whether it's five euros or five hundred thousand euros And do this in very reliable verifiable transparent way.

00:05:59: And really, we thought how is it possible that now we can see all our bank statements on our mobile phones and you know.

00:06:06: We click something with what we buy today when it arrives tomorrow?

00:06:10: And things circulate so fast in the other industries.

00:06:14: But in the film industry, you sometimes have to wait for months or other times.

00:06:19: You have to weight four years in order to access your finance.

00:06:22: so another kind of tip off how it's a bill.

00:06:26: resilient businesses is like if you have a problem in your industries Like How do you look parallel?

00:06:31: Do you look too?

00:06:32: How are there?

00:06:33: industries have solved this and essentially tried to build up very tailored solution To Your Industry to solve your Problem.

00:06:41: So What has been a big journey for us is like sometimes habits take a long time to change and you have to have patience, resilience in your vision.

00:06:56: then the fruits of work will come.

00:06:58: Excellent!

00:06:59: Thank you so much.

00:07:01: I'm curious about what makes you believe it's the rigid financial infra that is the pressure point where tech could genuinely strengthen the industry, originally?

00:07:17: It has started with our experience in film industry and really seeing

00:07:22: how

00:07:23: it was taking so long to get access to our money first and foremost but also information.

00:07:32: So it was taking so, so long to finally become aware of performance... ...to see how that production is performing in various territories.

00:07:40: To access reports and make empowered decisions that are more data-driven And not just based on gut feeling.

00:07:48: Then we started looking at statistics that were crazy.

00:07:52: In the UK creative industries are one point one billion out of pocket At every single time because of unpaid invoices or delayed access to their own money, businesses going out of business because there was money further down the line to come.

00:08:08: But they didn't come at the right time to pay their employees.

00:08:11: and from our own studies you know up to thirty percent of the revenue is either recouped very late or never recoups.

00:08:19: so we said okay to really push the boundaries of banking systems, or banking rails... To bring speed and transparency into people's wallets.

00:08:35: Great!

00:08:36: And now you've been up and running for say six-seven years?

00:08:39: Eight years.

00:08:39: Eight years yes fantastic thank you very much.

00:08:42: moving on Maffalda Duarte over to you Please introduce yourself.

00:08:48: Thank you so much!

00:08:49: My name is Befal Duarte and I'm a board member secretary for the International Game Developers Association, I also work with women in games and on-profit based in UK to promote woman in all facets of game industry both as players, developers and entertainment sites streaming.

00:09:09: And I've been a producer and studio head for the past seven years.

00:09:14: My experience has mostly been with indie games, I work for two big indie companies in their respective countries but like in Portugal with their monkeys... ...and then here starting out telescope game studios.

00:09:28: this is The Sister Studio for Telescope Animation.. ..And being Indies being resilient by design pretty sure our film crowd also.

00:09:36: it's the same on your side.

00:09:38: It means a lot of doing, doing a lot with very little and having to compete with bigger titles.

00:09:46: With more resources in the open market.

00:09:50: And so I have like this two facets of my work both as a developer and as a creator then an advocate for industry.

00:09:58: A lot of that we do for example in IGDA is how can we promote best practices?

00:10:05: How can we create sometimes some more industry-wide guidelines, because that's something the game industry being a little bit younger.

00:10:15: It still lacking... I'll give you an example of a tool we created couple years ago.

00:10:20: there was The Credits guideline Because a lot companies use game credits as this carrot to keep people around.

00:10:28: And if you leave before a game is out, your name is out and that creates problems for developers' careers or different types of games credit differently.

00:10:37: so If you play a mobile game You might see they don't know the names.

00:10:40: anyone who works there Also it's their long term like couldn't because then those names are Always evolving and pages long.

00:10:49: So like how do we solve problems?

00:10:50: Like that.

00:10:51: so yeah That's part of what we do to try to create a better fair game industry.

00:10:57: great

00:10:58: Well from this perspective kind of representing the film and TV TV old TV audiovisual sort of Perspective games are quite often perceived as more It's sort of innately more resilient than film, but you have an insider view.

00:11:15: Where does that perception kind of fall apart?

00:11:19: Well I think part of the perception is what your showing in your side media all those layers where money goes like how it is distributed How can you access?

00:11:30: and there are elements in video games You technically sell direct to consumer.

00:11:39: there is a little bit more of that ease, distribution and reach.

00:11:45: And it's like a tit for tat.

00:11:47: I'm selling the game but also use technology right?

00:11:55: But where it falls apart when people look at... Games as engines, so the ability of doing a game in Roblox and making money with it.

00:12:06: Or visual programming where maybe they can have tools like Game Maker and doing games quicker or easier access?

00:12:17: Well but that's the same thing having your iPhone being a cinematographer or a YouTuber.

00:12:22: now you also have access to camera while doing content.

00:12:25: So actually technology and ease of access, it is the same in both worlds.

00:12:31: And you wouldn't say that film is easier to make because YouTube as a platform exists.

00:12:38: so I think its fairly similar there.

00:12:41: thats where falls apart.

00:12:42: we perceive that ease-of-access has ease of having good access for marketing budgets & tools and have access to top tier talent can deliver certain amount.

00:12:55: stuff like how technical it is to make games and how quick changes.

00:13:02: Because you can have a great team that develop, I don't know... Now consoles are little bit easier but if you imagine when playstation three had proprietary way of developing game there And they knew what do they don't necessarily know what to develop them into a position for.

00:13:19: That's where it falls through, is like understanding the technology.

00:13:22: Great!

00:13:23: Thank you.

00:13:24: And then finally a name that I can actually pronounce with security My compatriot Piri Tapuikkonen-Klauk.

00:13:31: Welcome.

00:13:32: Would you introduce yourself and Tidef Sparks please?

00:13:36: Good morning, everybody.

00:13:37: So ZDF Sparks is an AI engineering company.

00:13:41: we were founded two years ago and We are building AI solutions in the media industry.

00:13:46: so what I typically call as a grandchild of ZDf which Is a public broadcasting company In Germany.

00:13:53: And they decided They need some new blood New speed in their developments and they decided to set up Sparks As completely new companies.

00:14:03: What we're doing?

00:14:06: Of course consulting, even though that is not our main goal actually.

00:14:09: It's not only consulting.

00:14:10: we are building new solutions.

00:14:12: So what we're doing?

00:14:14: We really looking the whole media value chain from understanding to audience simulating to audience finding New ways of getting deeper into the wishes of audience as it has Not been possible earlier and we then combine this information To program planning What should be when should be played, in which channels it should come out to the production of new content and recycling old content all the way through distribution topics.

00:14:45: We are looking into a value chain from different perspectives.

00:14:50: so first off we look at how do we combine audience and content?

00:14:56: How make sure that this is match?

00:14:59: to match what we all want, the broadcasting company wants and production companies also want.

00:15:05: From there we bring our audience throughout the whole value chain in different developments all the way through distribution.

00:15:13: As you see today processes are changing all of these areas.

00:15:19: so make sure that we're actually putting AI into place at right places.

00:15:24: So very important for us is dive deep into the workflows of current ones, we also evaluate new ones.

00:15:33: We see where AI needs to be build new where existing tools can actually be plugged and play in.

00:15:40: And very importantly, our focus lies when something needs to be built.

00:15:45: so all of those discussions here also in EFM When we hear okay AI can't do it We take as a challenge and say yes AI Can Do It but you have To Build It New.

00:15:56: This is exactly Where We Sit In.

00:16:00: Looking at that combination of content and audience throughout the whole value chain, very importantly we are also looking from a perspective on broadcasting companies as well as production companies.

00:16:13: We're seeing how can we bring those two closer to each other in collaboration through the whole-value chain when it starts with the audience understanding which I need to be a little bit critical about.

00:16:25: At least production companies could actually understand the audience better than they do today.

00:16:31: And we are trying to see the ways how can actually start all over from there and bring the broadcasting company, and production companies closer together with the help of AI?

00:16:41: That's fantastic!

00:16:42: To keep audience at core in this very centre for whom you're making these stories on screen big or small... What public broadcasters could learn about startups?

00:16:57: alteration and tolerance for failure, maybe?

00:16:59: Or what's...

00:17:00: It is a lot of different things.

00:17:02: First off all the reason why Sparks was founded was speed that's for sure.

00:17:07: so public broadcasting companies are typically very slow And we need to understand they can't speed up as fast as startups can do So.

00:17:15: this definitely one aspect Very important.

00:17:18: when talking about technology especially AI We don't come from media background.

00:17:25: So we come in very different industries, so we come from medicine and human resources building factories And We have seen these developments happening In other areas of different contexts.

00:17:38: This means friction.

00:17:40: So we are not taking everything directly as a broadcasting company says, We're questioning everything and this is very important.

00:17:48: so again these days here in Berlinale AFM have been discussing lot of different changes that's happening in media industry.

00:17:56: one aspect there new emerging content for example the vertical contact micro-dramas The production processes completely different than traditional production companies should be also because you have to build the scalability.

00:18:12: So what we are doing is, of course... We're looking into these production processes and seeing can actually change traditional production processes?

00:18:20: And put AI in place so that they make those productions faster or cheaper better!

00:18:26: There's a lot discussions.

00:18:28: if it could actually be cheaper The first production may be not, but if you don't get the second production cheaper with the help of AI You haven't done very good job in the first one.

00:18:38: So this is an aspect that we are looking into details and Of course it's not only content That is changing its workflows But also distribution.

00:18:46: so for example fluid IP In the AI created workflows We need to take into account And think about how do we build up data streams throughout production value chain to actually not get stuck in the old ways of doing things and which would then mean also stop for business.

00:19:05: If I may interject, it was absolutely fascinating to learn about this because even just as a statement ZDF Sparks legitimizes that we shouldn't fear change or exploring what future brings don't have resistance.

00:19:25: something new, it's coming.

00:19:27: And that is an incredible message for the entire industry just legitimizes that the future Is now or is just around the corner and we have to look at its with a critical eye but also With a constructive mindset.

00:19:41: so for me That was what?

00:19:42: Was absolutely fascinating To see that from a broadcaster and then the studio and Now this division.

00:19:51: Well, let's stick with this theme now.

00:19:53: The AI and its impact on other techs as well of course.

00:19:57: feel free to bring in your experience.

00:19:59: so what is happening?

00:20:00: if you want to elaborate a little bit more?

00:20:04: Yes!

00:20:05: With the AI lot things are happening.

00:20:07: when we look at typical production processes there was a lot focus into post-production earlier with the AI And one could ask that question Is it because the AI particularly suitable for the post production process or that our traditional production process is actually quite linear.

00:20:23: So whatever it's going wrong in the planning, you have to compensate for production and post-production.

00:20:28: Whatever goes wrong with production, we need to compensate on post-productivity.

00:20:33: In order to fit things into a budget, post-producing is where one needs to innovate a lot.

00:20:38: Maybe this has been why there was so much happening in post-Production because of AI.

00:20:44: What we are doing at Sparks and what is closer to heart is audience.

00:20:49: bringing really this audience focus into the planning already, and making that audience very close to their processes throughout.

00:21:00: So we have also simulating audiences.

00:21:02: so it's important to understand who are you targeting for?

00:21:06: And what is your audience?

00:21:07: how does it look like kind of deeply psychologically, how are your people behaving?

00:21:14: How they're feeling emotions.

00:21:15: What you trying to gain with your productions and do have?

00:21:19: target those aspects.

00:21:20: make sure that hitting in the planning and production to those.

00:21:24: I come from an industrial perspective, so we have been building industrial products for a long time... ...in very iterative way or agile ways where everything is AP-tested.

00:21:35: When i entered into media space.. ..I didn't see this AP testing happening even though it should be.

00:21:40: What's AP testing?

00:21:42: So you are testing two different alternatives because We can ask audiences And there're lot of surveys going up all the time.

00:21:50: But we as humans, can see if something felt good or bad?

00:21:54: We are good at saying that but why were feeling in this way is not very good.

00:21:59: explaining it so actually need to get beyond and do some kind of tricky testing where you don't even say what people are doing when they're just testing them then seeing results

00:22:19: impacting at the moment.

00:22:20: or do you see other tech solutions rising as relevant in your contexts, Maria?

00:22:30: So definitely again AI is something that we cannot deny.

00:22:37: We have to look at it as a fact and then for us even as business its always important new things to see how we can bring the solutions that are currently on the market, whether it's legal tech.

00:22:54: Whether its coding weather?

00:22:57: It is the AI that we apply to all of the huge financial data sets that we get access too.

00:23:07: so through machine learning more than a I two look at analytics and predictions.

00:23:13: All those Those Things

00:23:15: Are

00:23:16: extremely exciting because we are all as a team, as core value for us is to keep agile.

00:23:24: To keep curious and test things out.

00:23:28: We have to carve space even if it's like contracts clients improving the platform.

00:23:36: but how do you find enough time?

00:23:42: We can optimize workflows to see how we can push the boundaries.

00:23:47: To our product, but also to embrace what is out there.

00:23:52: all of these segments as I said in whether it's business development or tech coding legal Tech and features on a roadmap for products they All at that moment are involving.

00:24:06: two a certain extent AI

00:24:08: show

00:24:08: my father.

00:24:09: yeah like i think four.

00:24:10: Our industry is a little bit complicated in the sense that AI means different things.

00:24:14: and we have AI.

00:24:16: if you ever played... any game and there's a non-playable character that's AI, if you play party games versus the machine.

00:24:25: The new thing is generative AI element in large language models like how does it impact?

00:24:31: When we are on creative industry which makes assets directly, this impacts artists, copyrights... How do those models generate?

00:24:42: So I think there was a lot of conversation about ethics and environmental impacts and how that impacts.

00:24:49: then jobs talents, in the way we do our business models.

00:24:52: Because it does impact businesses.

00:24:54: if you... Do you own or don't?

00:24:57: Already an industry is kind of hard to copyright things around this so they can not copywrite a code but see them launch their game today duplicated, so like will those techniques allow for less originality in your work?

00:25:12: How do you own

00:25:12: it?".

00:25:13: So I think he creates a lot of these questions.

00:25:15: It also impacts the way that you get eligible for things at the moment.

00:25:20: right.

00:25:20: Like if use AI and your game You now are ineligible to certain awards or two appear in certain stores In different ways And then create some impact into visibility for your clients.

00:25:32: Will players boycott you, like there's so many business aspects that you have to think through.

00:25:39: And it was I think what super interesting when you're mentioning the way that you saw AI as a post-production element which for video game industry is more acceptable in pre production elements and support more of that ideation process.

00:25:55: Like how can it be used, the generative AI?

00:25:58: How can he use to be a supportive tool instead of final creation tools?

00:26:03: Maybe continuing on one very important aspect what we see is also changing but it's also very important.

00:26:10: this change in discussion and this comes back too-how do you make whole media industry resilient with tech and AI as they have these discussions openly?

00:26:19: so there used to talk to the creatives.

00:26:24: Creatives didn't want to tell techies what actually makes things creative, so techies took a chance and said okay we'll do it alone.

00:26:31: They got to the third time point in order for them to have interest of creatives.

00:26:37: now they are hiring their creatives into the tech industry who solved last mile questions on other side.

00:26:44: we had creatives form this industry.

00:26:48: You should own the industry in the future as well, but ignoring AI is not a solution to shaping the future.

00:26:56: it's making decisions together and I think we need discussion at that moment.

00:27:01: so it isn't like what AI can do or cannot do.

00:27:04: As I already indicated AIA actually saw lots of things.

00:27:10: We have seen it from the character consistency.

00:27:13: It wasn't possible, now it's possible.

00:27:15: Emotions were not really there while they are coming here.

00:27:18: so... ...it is just what do we want with AI?

00:27:25: The most important question we should be talking in very openly and even more than what you do today.

00:27:31: I just wanted to insert on this a very important discussion of copyright, actually the question of copyright existed for decades... ...and copyright has probably not been remunerated correctly.

00:27:43: And i think that now with the rise of the AI it's more and more prevalent.. ..the question of remuneration and fair remunération and compensation for work because of the AI, and actually fractional IP and fractional remuneration has probably a long way to go.

00:28:03: To actually catch up with remunerating creators across all disciplines.

00:28:09: And I think now the AI is just like really spotlighting The gap in remunération for IP And those were discussions since designers of Alien.

00:28:22: That's not a conversation that started two years ago!

00:28:26: Well, let's tie this back into the theme of resilience.

00:28:29: What does it mean to you in your day-to-day lives?

00:28:33: For us we actually look from different perspectives.

00:28:37: One is building an own company as an AI agent.

00:28:41: so... very quick in decision-making and you have to be very bold.

00:28:45: You have an idea where we are going, making the decisions... those business models, those processes.

00:28:53: Those developments.

00:28:54: but you have to evaluate continuously and this is not like a traditional.

00:28:58: we used to know okay let's take these process lets put it in place an evaluate after five years.

00:29:03: so incase you had any processes that were put in place five years ago please stop now do evaluate those re-evaluate.

00:29:11: are they still valid?

00:29:12: Do We need the shift on change?

00:29:13: And this change Is very important.

00:29:15: So as leaders In tech of our own mistakes or to say okay we do it as an experimental way.

00:29:25: We experiment something, we pivot very fast when something is not working.

00:29:30: Yeah, I think that's the key pivoting and being open to sort of critically assess your choices... Your tech choices?

00:29:38: Your developments overall?

00:29:39: The business size?

00:29:40: The focus everything!

00:29:41: That iIthink thats a super important point really To remain agile in order to survive these tumultuous times.

00:29:49: It´s important.

00:29:50: And second part what we see actually it our clients.

00:29:53: so When We are building AI solutions and products, we have been doing it over twenty different projects already along the value chain.

00:30:01: We also need to be very careful to evaluate how do we integrate those solutions into existing landscape in the existing workflows and software solutions and platforms because these are evolving all of time right now.

00:30:14: so again coming from industrial background building data product earlier built them in the microservice perspective, which means that you're building very modular isolated services.

00:30:27: You can plug-in and plug out them quickly easily.

00:30:30: And this is now all of the tech solutions especially to AI solutions also in media industry.

00:30:36: So what?

00:30:37: The production companies are often thinking about current productions so they think these products should be the next product.

00:30:44: They're optimizing AI solutions for one production and plugging it into optimal favourites This one and then comes the next production.

00:30:51: And as we know, creatives say okay this is very different... ...this is very unique!

00:30:55: And these are where things can go wrong.

00:30:57: so if you don't think about how you can plug in the same solution to.. ..the next production ,you actually get no benefits of AI.

00:31:04: Improving the production processes making them faster cheaper better.

00:31:09: Anybody else on resilience or your day-to-day lives?

00:31:13: Or the context that you're operating ?

00:31:15: Yeah

00:31:16: I totally agree with their aspect like iteration and kind of being on top, what's next.

00:31:24: I think a big important when it about building resilient business is also transparency in human first because at some point you need if your just transforming or changing our plans in very stank way that the upper level knows they're doing then don't have to buy-in for everyone else creating with them.

00:31:49: There's this recipe for burning out, to lose people along the way.

00:31:53: To let them go and get new people in.

00:31:55: And I think part of that resilience is kinda having like a core Of who we are as company.

00:32:01: What do you wanna do?

00:32:02: Like what our goal... Having a core value base

00:32:06: Your identity, your professional.

00:32:08: why Is it that you're doing?

00:32:09: or have a clear awareness of Who Are You As A Company And

00:32:14: share with your team Share With The People That You're Leading right?

00:32:17: Because I think that also there's a level of good leadership, it creates resilient teams.

00:32:23: A few points on resilience sets we kind of reflected on throughout the years so definitely just echoing what was said to have one of the core values of keeping agile and you know lend on your feet and just having very flexible mindset.

00:32:41: support yourself as leaders with just team that believe in vision even when when things get tough, and that really kind of builds resilient businesses.

00:32:51: Secondly is something I'm sure applies to so many people in the room as well... When you're told no or it's not possible just stick with your vision!

00:33:02: It's simple like this.

00:33:04: There were so many times where anything from accountants to banks even to advisors we are saying NO No, no.

00:33:15: It can't be done and it just simply Can't Be Done.

00:33:18: you're Just questioning it all the time but why?

00:33:20: But Why And I think that is so important both me and my co-founder We always just kind of took.

00:33:26: we took That's.

00:33:28: it's not possible with a pinch Of salt going like.

00:33:31: I'm just gonna prove you wrong.

00:33:32: And i think that has to happen everywhere, um... You know?

00:33:36: I am sure so many filmmakers have heard it's not good enough or its too edgy Or its too divisive or is too controversial or this and that and that It-it..you have to toughen up and stick your vision And probably not least from again coming back to technology I think a bit ahead.

00:33:57: So what's happening right now, because it is already here?

00:34:05: But if you can just try to have this leap into... What happens in two years' time so that we are ready for when two-year times happen!

00:34:14: It will be challenging.

00:34:16: You're working with a big number of production companies and probably the openness to tech and new solutions possibly their eyes?

00:34:27: I mean, do you encounter resistance or is it just because... It's a given that if they work together with emphasise and sort of leverage the benefits tech can give you.

00:34:39: But I mean, how do... Is there any moment that you navigate some problems or resistance in adopting tech?

00:34:46: And the best solutions?

00:34:47: So you see the whole bandwidth.

00:34:49: so there are these small groups people who are extremely excited and they try to do and test everything together next step into processes under our people who actually kind of lagging behind more resistant partly because of good reasons.

00:35:05: You can also go badly wrong with testing AI if you're doing it in the wrong way.

00:35:10: And this is what we have done.

00:35:11: instead of studios work, so we are building a joint AI strategy and we are taking everybody on their journey behind camera front-of-the-camera throughout administrative production processes building these safe places to actually experiment with AI.

00:35:29: So not all of the first experiments are successful, but you have bring people into the position that they don't have a fear of experimenting.

00:35:40: And as you can imagine, and especially when I talk about finance in legal aspects IP there are lot of different things where... Things go badly wrong if we're just taking any off-the-shelf tools.

00:35:52: We are feeding our company internal documents to experiment something.

00:35:57: So built the guidelines, and we have build a platform to actually jointly do that together with lot of different production companies because they are very clever on their strategy.

00:36:11: They've seen it doesn't really make sense if every company does this alone.

00:36:17: use the tuna cheese and do it together.

00:36:19: And that brings us actually to the next step very fast in the process,

00:36:23: makes you stronger together.

00:36:24: but assuming we have sort of independent production companies here in the audience with this morning is there anything that you could share?

00:36:33: That they could adapt maybe in their daily operations on these themes?

00:36:39: so we are exchanging at the moment very strongly partnering opportunities.

00:36:45: So we are a very strong partner also in the production alliance, and they're doing it for all of the production companies inside Germany.

00:36:54: What we do is looking into our next generation.

00:36:57: We collaborate with universities, film academies trying to see where we can actually get generation of creatives already up to the speed with AI and those can actually then help all the generations who are not that used, they're not AI native.

00:37:20: We see this kind of collaboration if it's inside of the company or inside a group, or student professional collaboration.

00:37:27: When you're putting these younger more technically native people together with professionals who have years of experience and this experience is something we should never underestimate the importance but when they put those two together magic happens!

00:37:42: That could be actually good idea.

00:37:43: thanks for that also for non-German producers in the room to get together more actively the sort of university scene and film schools, start creating something.

00:37:58: Or to see it explore what can happen there.

00:38:01: I'm just trying to think concrete action points that people could start when examining and testing.

00:38:08: What do you mentioned earlier?

00:38:10: Maria You look like have something to say.

00:38:12: I was thinking production companies in The Room.

00:38:15: It's a very legitimate question are my hurdles right now?

00:38:21: What can I change to

00:38:23: improve?".

00:38:24: Is it how i reach audiences, is its rights management.

00:38:30: Is money exactly?

00:38:34: or am just getting paid too late and feel like I'm licensing for amounts that don't feel right?

00:38:41: And if you ask yourself the question of where at the moment there's a pain.

00:38:49: There's probably a solution out there that will address that and have that curiosity to explore better ways.

00:38:58: To do things.

00:38:59: because I think one of the biggest challenges in industry is it just really kind sticking with some old systems, all processes Because this how has been done for many years.

00:39:15: But if it hurts, If you feel uncomfortable.

00:39:17: It feels too tough then there might be someone out There who has spotted that pain point and has addressed with a solution.

00:39:28: And um...if there's curiosity and appetite for this type of exploration Probably That Solution is not perfect but You can adapt to your challenge Hopefully solve it.

00:39:46: Is there any tech narrative that you are skeptical about in the current conversations or trends?

00:39:54: Well, I would say every time you hear this thing is revolutionizing everything and it will solve all our problems.

00:40:00: That's the skepticism.

00:40:02: There's not one tool-one way One thing that is going to be like The ultimate thing.

00:40:10: Yeah So i think Like Every tool is a tool And we should treat it in the same way that when you've got a pencil and now you have an automatic pencil, and then you have Photoshop.

00:40:20: And I think that's decepticism is whenever a thing

00:40:28: especially in the areas of Agendic AI.

00:40:30: We are building these modular blocks, agents that actually can collaborate with each other and being half autonomous... And there have been claims about how AI is taking over.

00:40:42: I'm very skeptical on this.

00:40:45: On the other hand, I would be able to take creative industries over.

00:40:50: But I don't believe it.

00:40:51: AI helps creatives boost and become more resilient but I don't see AI taking over.

00:40:59: And very importantly, we should not let AI to come into that space in the first place so we need to stay in the lead.

00:41:07: As i was kind of thinking about trends... ...I think what is important is to continue to keep human-centric experience at the core of everything

00:41:15: and

00:41:17: once we continue doing this.. ..and realize that human centric experiences are relevant People do want to go into the cinema, people do wanna engage in activities together.

00:41:34: We all want to

00:41:35: gather

00:41:38: around that fire and hear those stories absolutely!

00:41:42: And any technology trend is not going replace the need for human centric experiences... That's it I think

00:41:52: Wise words, that will be the perfect ending of this conversation.

00:41:56: Thank you very much!

00:41:57: Have a great festival!

00:41:58: A warm thank-you to our wonderful speakers Mafalda Duarte, Maria Tanjala and Dr Birita Pykkönen Klauk.

00:42:04: And of course thanks dear listeners for joining us on being part of this journey – and that's all from todays episode.

00:42:12: This season of industry insights is co-funded by Creative Europe Media.

00:42:16: Be sure to subscribe and help spread the word.

00:42:19: You can find us wherever you get your podcasts and also on the European Film Market website at efm-berlinale.com.

00:42:27: We look forward to welcoming you to future episodes of industry insights.

00:42:32: Thank you for listening, goodbye.