00:00:00: AC: Welcome to Industry Insights, a podcast for, by, and about the film industry from the Berlinales European Film Market, produced in cooperation with Goethe Institute, and co-funded by Creative Europe Media. This year-round EFM podcast puts a spotlight on highly topical and trendsetting industry issues, thereby creating a compass for the forthcoming film year. I'm AC Coppens, and I will be your host today. I'm the founder of the Catalyst, an agency for innovative and creative players. And we work at the intersection of digital technology and creative content.

00:00:44: AC: So today, we are addressing a super interesting topic with startups that have been participating in the EFM Startups Program at the previous European EFM. It will be all about innovative production. We will discuss new tools for producers and see how technologies are changing the way we can make films. Today, we'll hear about three startups. Pentopix, smart idea, led by a woman who has a clear command of a brief, and she knows what she wants to do. It's Volha Paulovich, co-founder and CEO Pentopix. Then we will have also from Drylab, which offers a cost-cutting innovative tool for something every filmmaking team needs and relies on when shooting the Dailies. We will have with us John Mahtani, CEO Drylab Media Tech. And last but not least: Call it! It's an app to help make sure the set stays respectful of all involved. Filmmaking is high-pressure work. We know that. And even to point out the benefits of mental health, help is important. Kate Wilson, co-founder and CEO from Call it! will be here with us today. All are tools that filmmakers can use to make life smoother, faster, more efficient, and probably also kinder.

00:01:59: AC: So let's dig into this. And I have all of them here with me now. And I'm going to start with you, Volha. Welcome. Volha, you are a serial tech entrepreneur and seasoned digital marketing professional. You are the co-founder and COO of the AI animation generator Pentopix. And the first question I have for you is, what is actually the need, the problem you have seen on the market on the production side?

00:02:24: VOLHA: Thanks, AC, and hi, everyone. We started with an idea that every story, every movie, every advertising video starts with text and then we translate it into a visual. And that is the friction point that is challenging for many people. When you describe anything in your life with words, it doesn't necessarily translate from what you're trying to describe to other people. They imagine something completely different. And I've seen this firsthand. I was in advertising for a number of years. And I've seen how ideas are just getting rejected because not everyone in the room can simply understand them or visualize them. And that's where Pentopix started. We thought that we can implement technology to optimize this process and help everyone get on the same page. Because if we can visualize text for everyone in the room to see it, then it will be much easier to get a story from zero to 100. And that's where we started. And as we dig in, we see other challenges that we can address simultaneously, especially when it comes to workflow and different tools, integrations, and multiple teams working on a story. And it always helps to have a single source of truth that has a director's vision or a producer's vision that the entire team can come and collaborate on.

00:03:43: AC: Right, I remember seeing you the first time in San Sebastian pitching, and then the EFM, and then you won the South by Southwest. I mean, you are on your way, so that's really wonderful. Nice to see you again, Volha. That's great. So I'm going to move to Kate now. Kate, you are a consultant, CEO, writer, and co-founder at Call It!, which is an app creating safer and fairer productions that I was saying before. I would love to know from your side now, what was the need? It's quite obvious. But how did you observe it? And how did you feel that there must be something to find a solution against that?

00:04:21: KATE: Hi, thank you so much. Well, I think there was a coincidence of information that came our way. Industry-wide, we noted that there were poorer cases of mental health in film and TV than in other industries, particularly in the UK, further to a survey undertaken by the Film and TV Charity in 2019. We also learned through programs, for example, at Deloitte that the cost of poor performance at work, the cost of poor mental health in the workplace was really pretty astronomical. It cost about 45 billion pounds a year to the UK economy. So it seemed to us that there was this opportunity to build a tool that helped us measure workplace culture and make sure that people were safe at work and being treated properly at work. So we got together and did it. It's three freelancers who built this very, very simple tool. It empowers everybody working on a production to anonymously record the way in which they're being treated. That data is collected by the producer. They'll know whether or not that person has any concerns regarding health and safety, safeguarding, or working conditions. They'll know if they've experienced bullying and harassment. And they'll know if they feel that they're being well treated at work. Meanwhile, each of the individual people working on the production is signposted to help so that they can make an informed decision about their own mental health and well-being. They can get advice regarding their legal rights as workers, et cetera, et cetera. So it's really doing those two things in a very, very simple tool that's just in their phone and available for them 24 hours a day. So we think that it can start to address our very bad habit of endorsing poor workplace culture within film and TV and actually get better production, better experiences for people working on our productions, hopefully retaining more talent in the industry as well, because we have a huge skill shortage in the UK. So we hope that when people feel that they're being more valued in the workplace, when they feel that they're safe in the workplace, they'll stick with our industry for that much longer.

00:06:18: AC: Absolutely. Thank you, Kate. This is great that such a tool is now existing, actually. Why not before, right? But you said there was a momentum, right? That was wonderful.John, you held corporate roles at Warner Brothers, Paramount Pictures, Universal Pictures, before you co-founded CineLab in London. Now you are the CEO of DryLab Media Tech, which is an on-set production tool and dailies distribution platform. So can you tell me now also from your end, so what did you observe on the production side? You said, OK, this must have a solution as soon as possible.

00:06:56: John: Thank you, AC, and good morning, everybody. Lovely to see Kate and Volha again after a while. So from our point of view, I can't really take too much credit for this, because the credit needs to go to my friends in Norway. John Christian Roslund is an award-winning cinematographer. Stane Kaiva is an award-winning filmmaker, and Odin Valla is the technician who developed the platform. And our friends in Norway basically identified a situation where, back in 2008, they could see a lot of time was being spent on communication within the production ecosystem. And a lot of it was being done manually, whether it was through email, whether it was through phone calls, whether it was through text messages. And what they wanted to do was develop an application where the dailies were being captured at the end of each day, and they could be shared amongst all of the stakeholders. So we have three stakeholders. We have stakeholders on set who are actually seeing the content being captured during the day. We have stakeholders near set, maybe hair and costume. Could be props. Could be people within who are not too far, but not actually on the set. And then we have a lot of the remote stakeholders. It could be the studio in LA. It could be a producer in New York. It could be the VFX house in Canada. And what the guys really wanted to do was to bring in an application where people had really quick access to the content so everybody within the ecosystem had visibility of the type of content that was coming through so they could give their feedback. So for example, if you're doing a VFX shot, have you got enough blue screen in the background? If you can give that recommendation on the day of the shot, it saves taking the entire production back the next day, which saves the production time and money. Also, being able to demonstrate at the end of the day that the line producer, the director, the DOP can actually view the content on that same day. So it means instead of having to wait the next day and make a decision, which is sometimes too late, you make that decision that same evening where you can say, you know what, I've got everything in the can. I don't need the location anymore. I don't need the lead actress anymore. And I don't need those extras anymore. So it saves you time and money. And what we liked about it before we acquired the company last summer is we interviewed a number of directors and producers who actually use the platform. And their view was it makes the production process more efficient, it saves us time. And you know what, we use it every year. If we didn't have it today, we would be at a loss now. So what we're trying to do now, having taken the company over, is to basically expand its footprint across the globe.

00:09:35: AC: It is so cool to see what technology brings, right? And see like, how did we do this before? So that's really great. I would like to zoom out now. I would like to have a look at the broader context of the state of production. I would like to ask you as all of you being experts from different angles, I would like to ask you, what do you observe has changed in the last years or is currently shifting? You might remember last year's EFM, 2023, there was a shift happen or shift happens. Anyway, something is shifting all the time and that's changed. But what do you observe this year? Where are we shifting to? Kate, would you like to start?

00:10:19: KATE: Sure, I mean, what a year it's been. Strikes, strikes, strikes. So people want to be treated better and they're standing up for their rights. And we're looking much more at what the collective experience is of success in a film and making sure that the right people are credited with that success. I think particularly in the UK, we're having a year where we're putting a lot of emphasis on professionalizing the industry. So we now have a huge inward investment in the UK and we're an international production hub. It is coming at the cost of some of our original independent cinema, which I think is quite a sad thing to witness is that we tend to be now producing other people's content and all of our cast and crew are assigned to other people's content as opposed to originating new IP and new independent films ourselves. But that does mean that we are professionalizing. We're understanding better where our compliance requirements sit, where our HR requirements sit, where employment law sits, where health and safety sits. And I think that's a necessary step. And it's also a step where of course tech can be very, very helpful and useful and sort of streamline that process for the sector.

00:11:30: AC: Volha, what about you? How do you see the shifts coming up?

00:11:34: VOLHA: Yeah, I'm afraid I'm gonna have to bring this up. The combination of words that, yeah, the entire year we spent talking about and that is generative AI. Strikes were related to the subject in a way. And I feel like we went, like the year is not over yet, but it went through waves, you know, through the cycle of, oh, like the film industry will never be the same and we're all gonna lose our jobs to AI and AI is gonna take over to a point where it's more, it got to a much less scary point because we kind of all understood its limitations and how we can actually use it as a tool rather than a replacement to parts of the process. And I agree with Kate that we are going through a professionalizing the industry. And in a way I feel like generative AI in general and being part of the movement of generative AI, even though we are very different from many other players, it gets, at least what we are seeing is that we are getting to a point where AI can help you generate the content, but what's the most important part of it is that a human, a storyteller, filmmaker is in the center and it's in the control, full control over the output. So today and hopefully looking into the future, I personally don't believe that AI will take over. I feel like it's a tool and a superpower that we can have. So with AI, with Pentopix, for example, you can go through pre-visualization and storyboarding stage within hours, if not minutes, versus months and weeks that typically you would go through. And so you get your time back. You now have not 24 hours a day, you have 48 hours a day. Some of us who are really proficient in this might have 96 hours a day. I'm not there yet, but I think that's an important perspective and I think that this year has shown us all that while technology is a very important part of the process, it's not a replacement to it.

00:13:31: AC: Great, thank you. What about you, John? What is your observation about the production shifts?

00:13:38: JOHN: Well, I think definitely AI will have an impact going forward, but I agree with Volha. If we look at when the internet came in 30 years ago, it definitely will be adopted, there's no question, but the time horizon will be a lot longer than some people think. I think there's a lot of people who are quite fearful that it's gonna come in overnight. I don't think that's the case. I think with any technology and any form of engagement with technology, there's always the challenge of adoption. And I think that the actors clearly made a point of not being impacted that way. For me, I think there's a bigger challenge economically on the horizon and I think that it's the cost of money, to be fair. I think we lived in a period of very cheap money for the last 15 years and you've seen interest rates go up from literally sub-zero to five points plus and there's no industry in the world that hasn't been impacted. So when I speak to lots of producers, their biggest challenge is actually getting their productions funded right now. So yes, the strike having been resolved, I think, is a really great bit of news for everybody within the industry. But I think the bigger challenge is being able to fund productions and it's, I think, again, the government's doing what they can to offer the film incentives, particularly the tax rebates and stuff will help. But I think the challenges I see, I think Kate touched on it as well. One is, particularly in the UK, is a shortage of labor. But on the other side is also getting the productions funded. So I think the tech is doing some great stuff in the background and AI is here to stay. But yeah, there's a few other challenges just outside the technology.

00:15:27: AC: Absolutely. So how do you think, John, that technology can really significantly lower the barriers and costs for firms? I mean, even beyond your own tool, basically?

00:15:41: JOHN: Well, we're constantly looking at how we can make the experience of using a platform, for example, like ourselves, DryLab, more efficient. So we have a very clear AI roadmap that we want to incorporate within DryLab now and that's very much on our plan for 2024. And so it could be, when you're looking at content, the AI tool can go in and cut out all of the clapperboards because people just wanna see flowed content. That's just an example. So that's not actually hurting anybody. It's actually helping the editors work through some continued content flow. So I'm just giving you a very minor example, but we're looking at different ways as a company and as a group to listen to our clients and understand what is it they really want to see in terms of technological change and trying to incorporate those changes to make their lives more easier. So it's really, it's what's coming back from the market to us.

00:16:38: AC: Right. I mean, you were evoking AI in your tools. So we know that AI is also very energy consuming. So again, it might have also maybe a bigger impact on environmental sustainability. I mean, what's your take on this? All of you who are working with AI, Volha?

00:16:55: VOLHA: Yeah, I feel like that's a question that probably there is no precise answer to. But the way we are thinking about it is not just the cost of money that John mentioned, it's the cost of time. And it's kind of the combination of two because if we can cut down the time on certain things, then obviously it will get cheaper to make it. And the environmental impact will also get lower 'cause then there is less logistical costs, less data transfer costs, et cetera. And that's kind of the comparison that we are looking at it. That's the point of view that if technology in general, AI specifically, kind of speeds up the process, at least when we talk about the like mundane tasks, then we can lower the cost of money, we can lower the cost of production, and we can lower the environmental impact of the film industry in general.

00:17:46: AC: Well, time is money, right? So indeed. [VOLHA: Exactly, yeah, that's right.] I mean in our capitalistic system at least. That's right. So what about you, Kate? What do you think in terms of business sustainability and environmental sustainability to start with?

00:18:04: KATE: The idea of reducing environmental impact by reducing time, I'm not sure I entirely buy into as an equation simply because I think we'll have a tendency to fill that space and we'll just make more content that will probably be of inferior quality. And that's despite the current cost of money, the current interest rates of banking. I think we'll make fewer independent films because of the cost of financing a film at this stage, and we'll see much more of these huge franchises, often that are being funded for an eight part film that's coming over the course of the next 10 years, as opposed to what I really love and the reason why I work in this industry, which are one off original independent films that seem to becoming very, very scarce and hard to find. So we've already been told in the UK that the independent film sector is in a state of market failure, which is not what you want to hear about your own industry. And we are becoming, I think, this sort of production services hub that works for international productions and often US productions, as opposed to for UK original content. And that for me is a huge business failure and it is something that we do need to address because of the cultural value of that kind of output. So that sort of business sustainability, we're already at a critical phase in the UK. I don't know enough about AI and its impact environmentally, but certainly Volha has much more experience won there. But I do question that if we have the time, I think we'll make double the content. So we have to be careful of that. And certainly the space that I work in much more so is about social sustainability. How do we make sure that we can offer people a career within this industry that is viable? That means that they can expect to be safe at work and treated fairly at work. And how do we make sure that our industry is a great place to work in terms of protecting one's mental health and ensuring there's this little discrimination as possible? Those are the things that we're able to address with our very small tool.

00:20:08: AC: I mean, the three of you, we know these greater challenges coming up to the industry, but there are also like great opportunities coming up and you are helping to do so. I mean, starting with creative technologies, enhancing the creative processes, making them faster, efficienter, Volha. You, John, being at the command of really like being on the dailies and production running smoothly with greater efficiency also. You, Kate, creating this environment. So it seems we are all set somehow to approach something with yes, these great challenges coming up, right? But at the same time, seeing like, yes, we can still also produce something of quality with tools which are enabling us to make a difference to everything which is going to come here because indeed it's true with generative AI, we're gonna have a lot more content and it will be very important to differentiate what is professional content, good content, also wanted by audiences and et cetera. So what do you think makes a good tool actually? So what, I mean, beyond your own tools, right? How do you recognize also a tool from a fellow, founders, colleagues and et cetera, we say like, that's a great thing. How do you recognize that? Who would like to start?

00:21:29: VOLHA: I think I can start. [AC: Yes, Volha, go on.] For me, a great tool is a tool that democratizes a certain thing. And what I mean by that is, you know, when you think about Photoshop or Unreal Engine or sort of any creative tool out there, it should make the process of, in our case, content creation easier, not more difficult and more technically challenging. Because by doing that, it puts more emphasis and kind of more value onto the quality of the story and the quality of the message you're trying to communicate versus the quality of how pretty the things are. 'Cause I think, controversial opinion, at some point we go to a point where the plot doesn't matter as much as the special effects. And I feel like today a good tool, and I personally see it more and more, especially in film production, puts the emphasis back on the story, yeah.

00:22:29: AC: Okay, I'm gonna go on with John, maybe. John, would you like to take this question again? What makes a good tool?

00:22:35: JOHN: Yeah, sure. I mean, for me, you know, if we look at the sort of process of production, you have different stages. So you have pre-production, you have production, and you have post-production. That's the sort of common life cycle of a production. And for me, what we know, DryLab is very much within the center of the production phase. And so there are applications that we're working with in post, and there are applications we're working with in pre-production. And for me, the best validation is we're constantly looking at lots of different applications within all the three processes. And I feel the applications for us, particularly as a company where I see value, is where I would say to my CTO, we need to interface with that application. Because I see value not only to us as a company, but I see value to the filmmakers, you know? So if we can provide a more of an integrated approach across the sort of production life cycle, then that will help filmmakers. And sometimes it's for us to sort of make that decision because they're creative in their own process, but technically maybe we can see certain efficiencies across that life cycle. So that is something that we're constantly evaluating within the marketplace to see, you know, which application can we API with, you know, which can we tie up with where our information would flow into that application or come in from that application to make the production process more and more effective.

00:24:00: AC: Excellent. So integrating, democratizing, that's important. Kate, what's your take on a good tool? What do you observe?

00:24:10: KATE: I really loved Volha's answer. And I think just to add to it, tools are there to amplify human beings' work, really, and shouldn't be there to try to substitute the human being. Certainly what we try to do with our app is to amplify the work that people are doing, make sure that things are accessible. And that's part of that democratization, but also that particularly when it comes to things like policies and procedures, those used to be things that producers kept in a safe in their office and nobody would ever have to have a look at them unless there was an accident on set or something like that. Really, they should be, you know, active documents, working documents in lay language that are accessible to everybody so that collectively, we can make sure that we're working in a safe environment, know how to let people know if we feel that we are at risk or our mental health is at risk or that we're being discriminated against. And so that kind of democratization, that kind of access that tech can provide, I think is really, really important. You have to be very careful to make sure that you don't, I don't really like the term disruptor because I always think that that's not, it doesn't seem quite what we should be doing. We should be evolving and sort of evolution rather than revolution if possible, despite having seen Napoleon this weekend, which was very good. I think that kind of evolution of the way in which we engage with one another on a production, film is so great because it has to be collaborative, right? You know, you need to work with people and you need to work with different people that have different skills and different ideas. So if you can build a tool that helps those people collaborate and cooperate more effectively, and if you can evolve those relationships and amplify the skills that people bring to the table, I think that's where our tool really, really starts to be the most valuable.

00:25:54: AC: That sounds all great. You know, like everybody should have these kinds of tools. So everybody should be embracing tech and et cetera, but don't you have sometimes the impression that we are in an industry which is acting like a dinosaur? I mean, I don't know. Do you see that some of, well, the guests listening to us today might have some issues, challenges to integrate this tech, to adopt this tech in their processes, to have this change mindset. So which are the challenges you see and how are you trying to convince them to embrace technology, to embrace and adopt these new tools? Kate, please.

00:26:37: KATE: I just wanted to say it is so difficult to get people to use new tech. The way in which our app works, you need absolutely everybody to use it. You know, it's supposed to be that everyone in a production is using it. And it is incredibly difficult to get people to use something regularly and also to not be afraid that it might be somehow jeopardizing their privacy, their anonymity, which is what we guarantee with our app, or putting them at risk somehow. And that's something that we really do need to acknowledge, which is that there's a breakdown of trust often between a production and the crew that's working on that production. Building that trust, making sure that people really understand that actually it's in the production's interest that everybody feels that they've got a voice and can and should be heard is part of that process of getting people engaged with new tech, particularly when it comes to an app like ours. But it is very, very difficult. I've read quite a lot of books and articles about the psychology of getting people to form a new habit. And it takes about 60 days to get people to form a habit that they're gonna do automatically, and about 15 tries to get them to not reject something new. So it's about chipping away at those conversations, really introducing things. Regular light touches is what I try to do when it comes to new tech.

00:27:53: AC: Great, John, how are you doing this to convince producers in a good way, right? That they have a clear advantage. How do you make this clear?

00:28:05: JOHN: Well, I have to be honest, before we acquired DryLab, we actually interviewed 20 producers and directors and said, "What is this really doing for you? How does this help you?" And I think there were two things that came out. One, when people said it makes the production more effective in terms of how we produce content, we're saving time, we're saving money. But I think the thing that really stuck with us was the adoption in Norway and Sweden. We could see that 90% of the market was using DryLab. So we then took the company over, and then we've gone out, and we've presented to a number of our partners and a number of new territories. And just as Kate touched, trying to introduce new technology, it's the human brain, basically. It has this challenge to adopt new change, and it's really trying to sell the benefits, being able to sort of articulate what is the value of using this platform. It's gonna save you time, it's gonna save you money, it's gonna make the process more efficient. And I think if you can sort of highlight some of the sort of business benefits and the sort of benefits of using an application that's good for the environment, because it means if everybody can view this content remotely, people don't have to travel as much. We don't have to use as much paper. We're saving people time, we're saving people money, we're making the process more collaborative. If you can start to sort of highlight the value of replacing it with a process, as you say, which was what I would see as a dinosaur in today's world, where people are writing things down on a Post-It pad, and somebody doesn't see that Post-It note, whereas what we're trying to do here is basically give everybody information at the same time and be able to then provide their information flow to make sure that everyone's happy with what's being shot. Then I think it's only gonna enhance the process. And the more and more people that use the platform, they see the value of what we're actually providing, the challenge becomes less. But initially, you've got to go and do the pitches, whether we're going to film festivals, whether we're doing Zoom calls, whether we're going to present one-to-ones. It's a lot of presenting and articulating the message. And eventually, you do get it over the line.

00:30:19: AC: Yeah, I mean, I understand also these filmmakers, producers, and et cetera, who have a hard time to implement new ways of production alongside the load of work and daily routine and what they all have to do. So to integrate something new or change something can be also like, it's bound with a lot of fear. And on top of this, if you have this AI stuff, and I'm going to you now, Volha, I mean, with the fear, which is also sometimes which is irrational. Sometimes it's a rational fear, like, oh my God, what should I do with a new tool? I'm already doing this, I have no time to integrate this. That's quite rational. But irrational is also something like, wow, what is this? So does this work? And this kind of magic you have also in your tool, Volha. So how do you address this from your end?

00:31:04: VOLHA: It's an interesting question 'cause I always think about coming from a tech world, we can sound very, very complicated to a non-tech person. We can talk about all the proprietary reinforcement model and RL pins and 3D scene generation and conflict resolution and all the custom versions of game engines, et cetera, that we are utilizing to get from text to 3D scene to video. That being said, I think for our users, it doesn't matter at all. What matters is that first and foremost, there is no risk in trying. So that's the kind of the fear element AC just mentioned. 'Cause if there is a risk in trying, then the entry barrier is that much higher. And they can easily try it in their workflow. And then there is a challenge in, 'cause we do think of film production as a collaborative process. So there is a risk in getting the entire team on board. This is what Kate mentioned, like it's hard to get, when everyone needs to get involved, that's the hard bit. So we try to build it in a way that if you want to use a Post-it note, like I love Post-it notes, you feel free to do that. But also there is an alternative that allows the entire team to see what the Post-it note says. So kind of make it low friction, so different members of the crew can kind of tap their toes in it a little bit, see if it does save time and money as we claim it does, see how they can experiment, see what level of control they have. And if they do like it, then we kind of try to turn that person into our advocate, that they can talk about us over a beer on the last day of shooting, and we'll be part of that conversation without being actively there.

00:32:55: AC: Yeah, I think this being part of the normal conversation, of a normal working conversation about what you use, what you do is a big thing. So now we are between us today, I mean, no one is listening to us except our studio manager. So I can ask you the question, what are the new utilities you're working on? And why? I mean, can you share a little bit more about what's coming up in your different labs? Who would like to start? John, go on.

00:33:27: JOHN: So we're making some very substantial changes on our distribution engine, which is known as Creator. And basically it will make the ability to add metadata to a production at a later stage more easier. It will also ensure that when we're basically moving content from the camera card into DryLab, it makes the distribution much easier. So hopefully that goes live within by the end of the year and we'll be doing some beta testing. And so we hope that again, making the application easier to use will help with its adoption. So we're really excited to be looking forward to that announcement end of the year, beginning of the new year.

00:34:11: AC: Fantastic. Who would like to give the next announcement? Volha.

00:34:15: VOLHA: I can share just between us. [AC: Yes, of course.] We started Pantopix with the idea that we can do generative AI with full creative control so that our users have complete, complete control over the output and what video they're getting. And what we've been working on is the ability to not just export a video out of Pantopix platform, but export a project file that our users can then either pass on to their design teams or simply open in their favorite tool like Maya Unreal, Unity, et cetera, and fine tune the output of Pantopix. And if need be, they can also save that project file, plug it back into Pantopix and allow less technical members of the crew to further play with it and kind of find the best visual language. So this combination from kind of AI generated to human touch back to AI generated, this is what we've been working on. And so we've tried it with a few producers we are working with and we received positive feedback because it used to be a challenge the different tools people use and different, especially when it comes to visualizations throughout pre-production across different teams throughout the production process and post. Things look very, very differently. So giving them this ability to have a single file they can work on is exciting to them. And we are excited to launch that feature soon.

00:35:37: AC: Great. I love to hear excitement and even back and forth between AI and human things. That's great. AI is a co-worker. Kate, what about you? Can you share something about a new development in your tool?

00:35:50: KATE: Yeah. Well, we're just in the process of launching the second version of the app. So originally it just asked about bullying and harassment discrimination. And now it's got that question that asks about health and safety, safeguarding concerns or working conditions. That's important for us because it frames that experience of bullying and harassment within a health and safety context and even within an international compliance and human rights context. And the exciting thing that we're doing is that has to be bespoke by country because of resources that we signpost to. So things like in the UK, we have the Film and TV charity and various other resources. And we will be launching in probably about six European countries in the first quarter of next year. So we're going through that process of translating and gathering the resources country by country. And we're really excited about that because, of course, we recognize that Film and TV is an international business and we want to make sure that everybody has access to the appropriate resources for them and can read the app and use the app in their own language. It's really important for us. So that's what we're spending our time doing. We're trying to keep it as simple as possible in terms of the actual tool, but it really has to be in the right language for the people using it.

00:37:02: AC: Yeah, right. I mean, this element of being a no brainer because otherwise you lose time, you lose money, you lose everything, you know, I mean, this excitement. I'm listening here, they too, this is good. So now I'm going to ask you something. I know, of course, your tool is the hottest and the best and whatever, because you are passionate about what you do, all of you. I would like to invite you to think now outside the box. And for the last question, very briefly, to tell me, what do you think will be the hottest tool in the next, maybe two, three years or so to speak? What do you think is the most needed by the industry? What do you see upcoming or maybe in the direction of if it was not your own tool and if you were not already busy with your own tool, what would you actually create? Right? What would you develop for the hottest new tool coming up beyond your own tool of today? Who would like to take it first?

00:37:58: VOLHA: I can probably take it. [AC: Yes, go, Volha.] I'm very, personally, I'm very excited about the idea of like multi-stream or like personalized content. I feel like there is a beauty in film as it is, because we all watch the same film, but it's been intriguing me more and more when thinking about that, you know, kind of that Black Mirror was an episode where you can play and like select the next output, this kind of stuff. So I'm excited about that direction where the films in specifically and like content in general gets kind of more and more tailored towards your interests and your tastes. I don't think it's a future for all the content, but I think in the next few years, there will be like a bigger place for it out in the market.

00:38:52: AC: Great. Thank you. Who goes next? John, maybe?

00:38:56: JOHN: Well, to be fair, I think with the amount of time I spend on Drylab, I have to say it's going to be Drylab because with 80 to 90% of the market in Norway and Sweden using the application, we believe that this application will be, you know, because right now we have partners in 16 different countries. And, you know, two years ago, it was only being sold in Norway and Sweden. We've just done our first Korean production, our first Japanese production. We've done two German productions. We've done a Dutch production. And the feedback that's coming back from the market is phenomenal. So we just want to keep expanding that footprint and taking it to as many countries across the world. And we feel that the application will provide lots of value to film producers, directors and in fact, the entire production crew that uses it on a daily basis.

00:39:50: AC: I'm sure if I had a little bit more time, I would challenge you on that. But actually, I totally get it that your tool is really so much at the core of the production processes that, of course, if you're passionate about it, you are into this core, right? But what about you, Kate? How do you see maybe the hottest tool coming up?

00:40:06: KATE: So I think if I had the brains for it, I'd be quite keen to develop a piece of fintech because I still think the way in which people are paid through production and are paid royalties or paid throughout the sort of value chain of filmmaking is a bit opaque often at best. And I don't see why we don't have a system whereby even extras could and should be paid on the day for the work that they've done. We work in a freelance system. We should be empowering those freelancers to be paid as quickly and as efficiently as possible. And so often I'm seeing even for the company, I'm trying to run a small business. And even for our company, we're seeing 60-day payment terms, which is kind of ridiculous and unnecessary. In that 60 days, a small company is probably paying interest on a loan that they could have paid back while the big company is investing in all the things they're investing and making money on it. So I always try to explain to people that that hundred pounds, by the time I get it 60 days later, has a value of about 96. And of course, the company that's been holding on to it for those days has made money off it. So I would like to see that gap between the big corporations that have the money and the individuals that should be paid really brought. It should be minutes after you've worked that you're paid. I'd love to see that happening. Our industry would benefit from it hugely because of the number of people we have on the ground and the number of freelancers.

00:41:34: AC: Wonderful. I like that. And what I also like is I know a couple of startups also from the EFM are working also on fintech and are really like great tools. So this is a good thing you're part of a family now. So it probably is also collaboration, getting the bridges to the right people and making the full ecosystem thrive. So thank you so much to the three of you. I'm so sorry I could go on forever and dig into the future even more and ask you for more secrets about your tools. But we're going to keep it at this for today. And because I hope to see you at the EFM, obviously in February. Thank you, John. Thank you, Volha. Thank you, Kate, for all your insights. And yeah, talk soon. Bye bye.

00:42:16: KATE:Thank you so much. Thank you.

00:42:17: VOLHA: Thank you so much. Bye Bye.

00:42:20: AC: Everyone you heard from today took part in the EFM Startups Program, which will celebrate its 10th edition in February 2024. You still have time to apply for the opportunity to participate in the EFM Startups Program till the beginning of January 2024. If you're an innovative company developing new cutting edge tools for the industry, if you want to learn more about it, if you're interested, well, head to the EFM website for more details on the application. It's www.efm-berlinale.de and you will find it very easily.

00:42:57: AC: Industry Insights. The EFM podcast is produced in cooperation with Goethe Institut and co-funded by Creative Europe Media. The podcast is available on all major podcast platforms such as Spotify or Apple podcasts.