00:00:02: Welcome to Industry Insights, the EFM podcast presented by The European Film Market of Berlin Halle.

00:00:09: My name is Elsa Kesslassie and I am Variety's International Editor.

00:00:14: This podcast series shines a light on highly topical trend-setting industry issues.

00:00:20: It's designed as a compass for the film year ahead, helping professionals navigate the fast-changing creative landscape.

00:00:28: Industry Insights is an year round podcast co-founded by Creative Europe Media.

00:00:34: In todays episode we share a fireside chat with David Kaplan.

00:00:39: The conversation was recorded during this years.

00:00:42: EFM Let start!

00:00:47: Hello everyone, good afternoon and welcome to you David.

00:00:52: So it's a real pleasure to be here having this conversation with you.

00:00:56: David Kaplan New York based Brooklyn-based producer whose work over the last fifteen years has shown us that its possible to produce bold and original independent American films that break through commercially but also at festivals.

00:01:16: and you recently produced, actually Josephine which won two prizes at Sundance.

00:01:24: And we'll be competing here in Berlinale next week.

00:01:28: just found a US distributor so will talk about that slightly later.

00:01:32: but I also during this conversation talked what have done for the last fifteen years.

00:01:37: You've produced EatFollows it comes out night and you also recently produce through your new company launched three year ago the Brutalist.

00:01:47: So that's a pretty big deal, Bradley Corbett and also Mona Fassboll's movie The Testament of Ann Lee.

00:01:54: so these are really successful independent movies And I just look forward to exploring first of all how Josephine came about because from what i understand it took you several years To make it happen.

00:02:09: starting with that

00:02:10: well It's great to be here and I apologize in advance for what I sound like.

00:02:14: This is not normally my voice, but we will do the best that can.

00:02:18: And to be fair... My partner Andrew Morrison produced The Brutalist and a Testament of Ann Lee.

00:02:22: He's Not Here Today But he deserves credit for those films in particular along with filmmakers Of course!

00:02:29: Truthfully Josephine was twelve years into making.

00:02:33: I could only claim to have been involved With the last three.

00:02:37: I knew Beth for many years, and she had been developing a different project.

00:02:41: A script that brought to her... ...that was intrigued by it.

00:02:47: together we were casting the film And at certain point along the way through that process of developing the film and casting the movie She got to know Channing completely by chance.

00:02:57: And so this project, which had been something that she had planned on perhaps making later in her life because she'd been trying and trying but it was always very difficult suddenly became Perhaps slightly more possible Because she had an actor.

00:03:11: now two actors because Gemma Chan had been involved for years at this point a Damian.

00:03:16: So when she suddenly had the parents for the film She called me up and said well I know we're supposed to be making this other film and I'm still very excited about that, but... ...I now have two actors for this other script.

00:03:27: And would you ever be interested in perhaps doing that first?

00:03:31: To which i said, pfft, Gemma Chan, Channing Tatum This beautiful script of yours that i read years ago That i know you've always wanted to make the movie that You've Always Wanted to Make.

00:03:40: Yeah we should probably go do that.

00:03:41: So that was October of

00:03:44: twenty-twenty three.

00:03:45: Was there a male actor who is already on board project?

00:03:48: early on

00:03:49: There were, as far again because I wasn't the producer.

00:03:52: I actually don't know all of the male actors who are involved but there were several as far as i remember.

00:03:58: The only one um and-and Again if I'm wrong I hope i don't get a call about this being like.

00:04:03: you're absolutely wrong, but I believe at one point in time Matias Schoenarts perhaps before the pandemic was going to do this film.

00:04:10: Again Beth was trying to make this film for many years also with many other great producers from America who um...I joke to at least one of them someday we have to have a dinner for all the producers of Josephine because collectively we all made this movie.

00:04:25: just took a very long time.

00:04:27: That's amazing.

00:04:27: And so this project, why do you think that?

00:04:31: Why it took so long?

00:04:31: probably the financing rights

00:04:33: many reasons.

00:04:34: I mean its.

00:04:36: We could have a whole conversation about that probably.

00:04:38: Yeah,

00:04:38: I mean... We're gonna talk about it for sure slightly later.

00:04:41: we are starting to talk.

00:04:42: the creative aspects then were going to talk about financing.

00:04:45: yeah and again i was only involved from this last attempt.

00:04:49: make film there where many before us but filmmakers in our room hope its reminder.

00:04:55: if doesn't happen first time second or tenth maybe eleventh is right one also.

00:05:02: maybe you'll be the right one when it happens, and then you end up with a version of film that's meant to exist.

00:05:07: if thats what this is.

00:05:08: But financing was of course challenge I think.

00:05:11: also The Subject Matter

00:05:13: Yeah.

00:05:13: so talk about That Subject matter.

00:05:14: its an eighteen year old girl who witnesses sexual abuse or sexual assault.

00:05:22: She has to testify in court, right?

00:05:25: And he talks about her trauma a lot.

00:05:27: So it is very difficult topic.

00:05:30: Did you feel some resistance when you pitched the project.

00:05:34: two people

00:05:35: Yeah Resistance Concern Skepticism and about the commerciality worry from parents About what this film is worrying that it's too dark.

00:05:49: And I think one of the things that has been most exciting and heartening about The Experience Of Taking This Film Out Into The World is a number people have spoken to since then who've said, It obviously tough subject matter but its also hopeful.

00:06:05: Its'a conversation about parenting, its'a conversations about processing trauma even at times even funny.

00:06:11: there was little bit of levity in it and other people i talked with are assault survivors.

00:06:17: I hope it's not, for everybody.

00:06:19: Maybe won't be the case but the ones i've spoken to have said It wasn't triggering and in fact or was tough But ultimately cathartic because of how this subject is handled.

00:06:29: And of course that's Beth she deserves all the credit For.

00:06:32: yeah there were a lot Of concern.

00:06:34: who Is movie four?

00:06:35: How will this movie gonna Be?

00:06:38: Is it commercial?

00:06:41: So from what I hear also Channing and Gemma Were extremely committed In project.

00:06:45: right I think they're producers, right?

00:06:49: They are both producers on the film and for entirely worthy reasons.

00:06:54: Gemma's involvement in this film dates back many years now.

00:06:58: she stood by it when it was happening before and fell apart, she stood by it.

00:07:03: And... When is time to make the movie?

00:07:05: She made The Time & Was Always So Deeply Committed To It Into The Character That She Played.

00:07:11: Channing was a much later edition but I heard stories from people who were involved in film People Who Weren't Involved With Film that he would see people who could finance the film.

00:07:22: He Would Say I'm Trying To Make This Film Josephine and i believe so strongly and hope you'll be part of this.

00:07:29: And so, he was a part of the team raising money and trying to make the movie.

00:07:34: You just don't see that very often.

00:07:36: So both them their commitment in their steadfastness is what you dream about as your actors?

00:07:41: You dream they'll be down for this journey but also have partners in making it self... It's rare!

00:07:49: And so when you started working with Beth on the script, did you give her notes?

00:07:55: Because I think your pretty creatively involved producer.

00:07:58: What kind of back and forth do have it here?

00:08:02: this is where honestly i can take no credit.

00:08:05: script was written many years ago in The Sundance Lab project went through multiple versions of the Sundance lab.

00:08:11: she had other producers along the way who were if I remember correctly Kim Parker Kyle Martin John Baker Josh Peters who ended up being involved with this film as a producer but also was a financier, um...who were involved in the development of The Project.

00:08:26: It's based on or inspired by True Events.

00:08:28: Well I didn't know it was based on true events

00:08:30: Inspired By.

00:08:31: It was extrapolated from something that Beth saw As A Child.

00:08:35: So i can really take no credit for the script.

00:08:38: You Know we talked about the Script Of Course and Development of the production But most of it is really About the practical realities what we could raise in financing, What the movie would cost?

00:08:49: What the priorities were or seemed to be from a storytelling perspective.

00:08:53: But in terms of sort of getting this beautiful story The page and telling it In the best possible way purely creatively.

00:09:00: that's all Beth And her past collaborators.

00:09:02: So I don't know if i can talk too much about what We see in the movie but something there is the actual sexual assault scene That pretty much at the beginning Of the movie very graphic.

00:09:15: I mean, i was really like wow and i wonder did you feel at some point that you needed that scene?

00:09:22: or do you think maybe it's the reason why this movie took so long to finance?

00:09:29: Honestly...I don't even think understood until we were in pre-production exactly how are going about handling a particular scene but not till your location.

00:09:42: you're talking to the actors, your talk into the DP or in pre-production that you truly come understand totality of what it could look like and what will be.

00:09:50: I think we were always committed showing something unflinching And thats a choice.

00:09:57: obviously You could have filmed that scene many different ways but Beth wanted do it this particular way.

00:10:03: Think there was risk Shying away from the brutality of what happens and I think we always were just hopeful that it was the right choice.

00:10:13: There are obviously other films in cinematic history.

00:10:15: That have shown a brutal assault.

00:10:18: This is doing it in its own way.

00:10:20: there are other films, Of course great films that have chosen to be more reserved.

00:10:24: And then i think We're Just hoping that In proportion To What The rest of the film Was That this Would Make sense?

00:10:30: And Have Again Been Heartened.

00:10:32: That General Response has been.

00:10:34: It was an okay Choice even as hard it is to watch.

00:10:38: I'll just

00:10:58: start by saying for those of you who have not yet seen the film and it has now played in Berlin, yeah.

00:11:02: In a public screening.

00:11:03: so i imagine that's very few of you if anyone can't wait to see this girl.

00:11:08: she is incredible Not because her performance or parents Or family or approach.

00:11:14: It was first film.

00:11:17: She wasn't an actor before Beth again all credit to beth Saw her in crowd at market seven weeks before we started shooting.

00:11:27: Wait, how many girls did you see before?

00:11:30: We had local casting on and wanted to find someone in San Francisco who seemed like the right mix of Channing & Gemma.

00:11:38: so were looking for.

00:11:39: particular types were professional actors.

00:11:44: Some of them weren't, I think...I can't remember exactly.. I think we maybe saw a ninety in total.

00:11:49: We had few finalists.

00:11:51: One was very established actor Mason only seven at the time that made this film.

00:11:56: She turned eight and got her birthday party during making The film.

00:12:00: she's actually younger than it is written on page but seems so mature for age.

00:12:05: And also just Beth immediately like she started farmer market running around and went up to her, said where's your parent?

00:12:15: And she went uptoher mom.

00:12:17: Would you daughter ever be interested in doing a

00:12:20: film?".

00:12:21: Again just serendipity.

00:12:23: Her mom was immediately like yeah You know I think so.

00:12:29: Also sort of alluded the fact that maybe To some extent Mason always imagined She'd been an actress.

00:12:33: So it is sort of serendippity.

00:12:36: Immediately from the first time Beth started working with Mason in the casting process.

00:12:41: She was like, this is The Girl This Is The Choice and honestly again to her credit real skepticism on part of producers saying she's a little young never acted before In age, but also the implications of what it would have in our schedule if we had cast a nine year old.

00:12:58: We would've been able to work with that person more hours

00:13:01: every day.

00:13:02: there is a difference between

00:13:03: America their labor laws and so casting someone younger better scheduled how do you longer meant?

00:13:10: for days just to cast Mason.

00:13:12: So it was, Beth had to make compromises creatively to cast this girl who had never acted before which she met in a farmer's market seven weeks ahead of time and clearly It was the right choice.

00:13:22: so I don't know.

00:13:24: sometimes serendipity or just brilliant director Who knows what you want?

00:13:29: For sure!

00:13:30: So did you have her read the script?

00:13:32: Or like

00:13:33: Her parents, their parents read the scripts And knew Of course What is about.

00:13:37: You Know mason knew as much is felt appropriate, which was that it was a tough film and of course with something bad happens in the beginning.

00:13:46: She has courses on these scenes where Channing and Gemma are very intense.

00:13:50: The film isn't just about getting over trauma.

00:13:53: It's also about parenting How we talk to kids What should tell our kids How we don't necessarily know how to deal with those situations ourselves, how two parents maybe have different ideas about how to do it.

00:14:06: With a tough situation and how they talk to each other or can't talk through each other in those times?

00:14:10: And so Mason has seen the film starting twenty minutes in.

00:14:15: So she's seeing most of the film And her parents were, of course on board and creating a safe environment where that's possible was always as much priority.

00:14:33: Of course is making it good film.

00:14:35: so you talked about working hours?

00:14:39: Yeah

00:14:40: not every day because there's a dance scene in the movie.

00:14:44: That's not a spoiler.

00:14:45: You don't need a psychologist for our dancing unless its particular type.

00:14:48: I'm not gonna presume.

00:14:49: i've seen Gaspar Noé's climaxed.

00:14:51: maybe they're psychologists but this film we had mental health professionals where it felt like not just for our actors, but of course also for crew.

00:15:02: Because I imagine a lot people who came to this film from top-to-bottom were here partially because what the film was about their connection with story and so making sure that we could do as well by them in there.

00:15:16: mental health is important are cast intimacy coordinators for all the scenes with anything that was violent or just romantic even, because there is also romance in the film.

00:15:35: So yeah we had to... This a film that required a lot of delicacy and care.

00:15:39: And so now talking more about financing aspect how did you finance this movie ultimately?

00:15:46: Again I think there's even versions on this film previously that were financed close-to-financed Because Beth isn't totally unknown Even though...

00:15:53: Yeah, she had made this movie soft and quiet before.

00:15:57: Which is incredible!

00:15:58: And then

00:15:58: she made it for almost no money.

00:16:01: It came out a couple years ago.

00:16:02: There was one shot film.

00:16:04: So very challenging sort of production She made in four days.

00:16:08: Uh..she actually shot the film four times From start to finish Just one take Then stitched together The best takes.

00:16:14: so its not really a winner It's a magic trick, but four days for production.

00:16:17: It was crazy!

00:16:18: And it premiered at South by Southwest right?

00:16:20: It premieres at South By Southwest and sold more than it cost.

00:16:24: so I think that is an important data point maybe for investors this as commercial filmmaker or who could make challenging film again about assaults violence hate.

00:16:36: That movie was very successful financially but also incredibly watchable.

00:16:42: gets nervous, uncomfortable laughs in a room.

00:16:45: It's compelling it's dramatic but its also thrilling and so I think Beth had proven herself as director since you know the last time she tried to make this film.

00:16:53: i think that is important.

00:16:55: we obviously suddenly have our cast Channing and Gemma together.

00:16:58: people saw possibility of that.

00:17:01: group parents could be exciting.

00:17:03: than movie then also was very hard of course.

00:17:07: ninety-nine percent.

00:17:09: we went to and said would you like to make this film?

00:17:11: Said absolutely not.

00:17:13: What was the one reason, I mean the topic...

00:17:17: There's two reasons i think.

00:17:19: reason number one is perceived commerciality.

00:17:22: a film like this isn't possibly commercial.

00:17:24: who wants to see something so dark?

00:17:26: it's dark times.

00:17:28: We need comedy, we need levity.

00:17:29: Romantic

00:17:30: comedies?

00:17:31: We

00:17:31: need romantic comedies.

00:17:32: We need films with Jason Statham and Jerry Butler.

00:17:35: Uh...we need lots of things!

00:17:36: We don't need a film about assaults.

00:17:38: And I think there's also an inherent bias against films that are perhaps more geared towards women-and-assault survivors.

00:17:46: Um..And so i think theres lack belief in them as audience A lack desire to try find them.

00:17:52: Did you try to bring it into a streaming service?

00:17:55: I don't remember if we actually went to a streaming services during the financing process.

00:18:00: Beth was always adamant about theatrical, and I'm pleased to say that both in the

00:18:04: U.S.,

00:18:04: and abroad... ...I think we are going to be theatrical just about everywhere that theaters exist.

00:18:09: so that's

00:18:10: a

00:18:10: huge win for the movie!

00:18:11: And i think film plays really well in theater as collective experience.

00:18:17: people gasp and laugh maybe uncomfortably at times.

00:18:22: And I think i've heard tears from and hopefully a sigh of relief.

00:18:28: um, At some points so...I Think it's great that It's theatrical!

00:18:32: I don't think we went to streamers because I think We knew That it would just never happen?

00:18:35: I Don't even really with few exceptions..We Really didn't Even talk To theatrical partners about this film before we made it.

00:18:41: Because again Again were not idiots ..we know They Would Never say yes ...we did Talked to A couple and their response more often than Not was That other script you have with Beth is really exciting.

00:18:54: When that one's ready, we should talk about it and can't wait to see Josephine when its done!

00:18:58: Which is, by the way a very common response.

00:19:00: Most times when you're trying to get financing The responses we can't wait to see it.

00:19:04: It's just not for us right now.

00:19:06: Look they are running businesses.

00:19:07: You understand that?

00:19:08: But no We always knew this had be equity.

00:19:11: We talked with foreign sales companies before we started One of which WME International.

00:19:17: Alex Walton Provided us with sales estimates Which said if this movie was great If it's as good as it needs to be, I think there is real value in the film.

00:19:26: We were able show those estimates two investors and say look its only worth that much of what paper was printed on.

00:19:32: but this very respectable man who has been doing these a long time says if movies are good maybe not terrible investment?

00:19:39: And ultimately we knew he had private investors.

00:19:44: so the film was finally financed by three equity companies.

00:19:49: different sizes came in at different points, but I can't say enough about all three of those partners and how grateful we are for them.

00:19:56: You can mention them.

00:19:57: Oh yes, so the partners were Spark Features run by Josh Peters and Rebina Ritchettiello out of Los Angeles.

00:20:05: Spark is The Patron Saint Of American Independence Cinema.

00:20:09: They are responsible for everything from Didi which was at Sundance a couple years ago that Focus released Max Walker Silverman's first feature and second feature That most recent ones we're building this past year He had three.

00:20:21: they have three films with Sundance ours, and also Walter Thompson Hernandez's film.

00:20:27: And Ramsey's Ishaac's film both of which are still up for sale.

00:20:31: distributors plead by those movies um...and they finance small bits in pieces of equity usually there not big financiers.

00:20:40: They took a much bigger risk on this film partially because they were the sole financier of Beths first film been successful investors that film, but more critically loved and believed in Beth.

00:20:51: And Beth love them and wanted to work with them.

00:20:53: So they were our first investor.

00:20:56: the second investor was a company called Kinematics run by filmmaker himself A guy named Mark Rappaport who is director or writer also producer Who I actually met because of previous film i was developing With Beth and um... Mark's partners are a guy named Manny Nunez.

00:21:12: Once upon time a million years ago ran CA Media Finance So a very sophisticated finance guy who probably looked at the script and said, oh I don't know but believed enough in the project.

00:21:26: And then team that he and Mark their third partner Jordan Rappaport all said we want to do this before shooting film.

00:21:34: they were our two financiers quite enough money.

00:21:39: We had a third partner come in, a company called Yintai Entertainment backed by Chinese industrialist named Diana Chen.

00:21:48: Oh yeah!

00:21:50: What's the name of that company again?

00:21:51: It was called Yintai.

00:21:53: The film that was the biggest box office success in China and they actually were involved with the American bringing it to America.

00:21:59: so they've been involved in English language cinema.

00:22:02: now for little bit.

00:22:05: Partners in this film were producer named Brant Lee Gong and Christine Zhang, who's how I first met them.

00:22:12: They came in during production And again we just could never have made the film without them.

00:22:16: How long before they shoot did you close a financing?

00:22:19: We closed The Financing.

00:22:21: Well let's take the yin-tai piece out because Let's Just Talk About The Production Budget.

00:22:26: Six Days Into Principal Photography

00:22:28: That's insane!

00:22:29: Wow!

00:22:29: We closed the bond six days In...the film was cash flowed Not knowing if it would fall apart even two days before we started production.

00:22:39: If that had happened, I think we would have lost collectively about three million dollars.

00:22:43: deals weren't closed.

00:22:44: We closed the bond six days in and we closed actor deals a few days Before now.

00:22:49: to be fair no one's fault things had to move quickly.

00:22:53: We had a window.

00:22:53: We had to go.

00:22:54: this was the only way to make the film.

00:22:56: And um and we had partners who were crazy enough to want take that risk with us?

00:23:00: So again This is a miracle And we could have never done it without those three companies.

00:23:05: Yeah, and We need so many more of them!

00:23:10: Please everyone in this room as a filmmaker.

00:23:11: do not call them after This because I'm sure they already get enough calls but just know that They exist and other Companies like this exists and let this be A lesson to all of Them That these companies are going To make good money on this film?

00:23:24: You can Make a hard drama and It Can Be okay

00:23:27: I don't know exactly about Germany, but i know that in Europe there are so many countries where producers take way less risk because they can get a lot of subsidies like a lot soft money etc.

00:23:38: and pre-sales.

00:23:40: But you guys decided not to take the project too.

00:23:43: The market right?

00:23:44: To have pre sales.

00:23:45: or did you try it?

00:23:46: Yeah we tried ,but the market hundred percent said no.

00:23:50: And I think the benefit of making films In America?

00:23:54: There's So Many Disadvantages, we can talk about them.

00:23:57: But the benefit is ultimately this is the risk that's required it's understood and We don't rely on subsidies.

00:24:04: so we don't lie on public funding.

00:24:07: And even if everybody in the world says no It only takes one yes.

00:24:12: And so, you just have to believe.

00:24:13: there's somebody out there who wants to believe with you and we found those partners.

00:24:18: We as a production company took a ton of risk as well... That

00:24:21: what I hear!

00:24:22: You don't even have back-end?

00:24:24: Well no everyone has back end but the more critical thing about this film is that we had make it for little humanly possible.

00:24:37: So whats budget by the way?

00:24:40: Well, it depends on whether you're a distributor or I'm talking to you honestly.

00:24:43: Yeah

00:24:44: Honestly It's just the two of us here.

00:24:46: yeah if your distributor was very expensive and so as we are pre-selling The movie or sorry doing sales in good fellas is our sales agent?

00:24:53: If any of you were distributors please call Vincent and Eva immediately after this?

00:24:57: It was a very expensive film And we won't take less than the most.

00:25:00: no We made the film.

00:25:02: In America there's a union contract called with Ayatsi called tier one.

00:25:07: There's a maximum budget for Tier One.

00:25:09: We made it at the absolute top of that because if we had jumped another tier everything would have cost so much more and It was The absolute most.

00:25:16: We could raise and Simultaneously, the absolute least of what you can make a film for.

00:25:22: So the film ended up costing around six million net which is a healthy budget?

00:25:26: It's a real-budget.

00:25:27: allowed for everybody on the film to be paid More than living wage but also allow us to make the film in San Francisco Which Is not the cheapest place To shoot

00:25:36: expensive.

00:25:37: Did You did your single coming to Europe for the shoot?

00:25:40: Beth, and I'm so glad she did.

00:25:42: this was always like no.

00:25:43: The movie has to be made in San Francisco because um i have the locations in my head.

00:25:48: we have to shoot on the Golden Gate Bridge We Have To Shoot In Golden Gate Park!

00:25:52: The film at San Francisco is not a major character in the film but it's texture of the city animates.

00:26:00: It would be a different film without it.

00:26:02: There are films, we have made films.

00:26:04: The Brutalist and Anne Lee both shot overseas And there was a way to do those films as such where were able.

00:26:10: I hope the audience can tell us Give off that impression of the films taking place in places Where they said They Were.

00:26:17: In this case We could not fake San Francisco and didn't want To.

00:26:23: That made the movie more expensive.

00:26:24: Therefore we had to find partners who thought You're making it in san francisco.

00:26:29: That's worth it, that's okay.

00:26:30: It was where Hitchcock made films.

00:26:32: those worked.

00:26:33: So yeah

00:26:34: definitely and so the actors because you have two well-known Actors.

00:26:38: were they there?

00:26:39: They were producing.

00:26:41: so

00:26:42: like everybody else on the film Everybody sacrificed for this film in terms of how it was made from Beth And her directing fee to the actors their acting fees Non-precedential on their next film.

00:26:56: They should all be paid tens of millions of dollars to no quote deal.

00:26:59: I have it in writing and yeah, but you know That's how you make a film with movie stars And a great director and great crew In an expensive city.

00:27:07: for that amount It takes the village of people who believe

00:27:10: do feel like because we didn't have big studio onboard early On or likes.

00:27:14: lots of commitment did you?

00:27:16: Did he give you more freedom creative freedom?

00:27:18: well Yeah, I mean Beth had Creative freedom, but you know creative freedom.

00:27:24: You can have final cut in America it's not a given of course...you can have Final Cut and there could still be problem if don't the right partners.

00:27:32: We finished production on this film In May of twenty-twenty four.

00:27:36: we premiered the film January of twenty twenty six.

00:27:39: For those who are good at math that is long time.

00:27:42: It means were in post for a long time.

00:27:44: making sure That we did as write by stories being really patient making sure that we were doing right by the color, or the sound.

00:27:52: The picture at it... Doing a couple pickups with our actors when we thought you know what this could be just a little bit better spending every dollar of contingency That we could to make sure that he did as well as we could buy.

00:28:03: and At no point Did any of our investors say?

00:28:07: We've had our money in this movie for years move faster.

00:28:10: And now pointed they say You know we like this but can it be different?

00:28:15: and not kind of.

00:28:16: the difference needs to be different otherwise you need a move, there was no pressure.

00:28:20: And I think Maybe if you're Paul Thomas Anderson making a movie with Warner Brothers, You get that kind of treatment.

00:28:26: But I don't think all filmmakers working inside of the studio system necessarily gets that privilege and so making this film independently definitely gave us The flexibility to make Beth's movie her way.

00:28:37: And now the US deal is something super important not just for commercial prospects but also for award season prospects.

00:28:45: Why did you choose this distributor who is really fairly unknown?

00:28:49: Sumerian pictures I think.

00:28:50: Yeah, um...I'm

00:28:51: sure you were courted by other well-known distribution companies.

00:28:55: Yeah, we were lucky enough to get a few offers on the film from different companies.

00:28:59: Although interestingly... I don't think i'm saying anything too contrary or too crazy.

00:29:04: Interestingly nothing worldwide only deals for the US or international and nothing crossed.

00:29:09: so We found ourselves in an interesting situation where?

00:29:19: was dreamed of a great theatrical release, and we had few offers.

00:29:28: Varying levels of financing, varying levels of theatrical commitment.

00:29:32: obviously that plays some role in all this.

00:29:35: it is very important to Beth always.

00:29:37: our investors made their money back if they could.

00:29:40: They took tremendous risk.

00:29:41: It's important for me as producer.

00:29:42: the same way I would anyone want work with you again?

00:29:45: If don't take care them particularly.

00:29:47: success Calculus in what we decided.

00:29:51: it was of course financial, but Sumerian In addition to making a very meaningful financial offer also offered Very meaningful screen commitment.

00:30:01: A very meaningful P&A commitments.

00:30:03: And so as a result they were the company and I want to say for the other companies that offered.

00:30:08: We are so grateful for those offers.

00:30:10: not everybody offered on this film.

00:30:12: Everybody told us They love the movie.

00:30:14: everybody told us how great It is.

00:30:15: everybody told Us Whether it is or not, that's what they said.

00:30:18: Don't know if you believe but its okay.

00:30:20: They did.

00:30:20: maybe would have offered.

00:30:21: Everyone told us we can't wait to see what Beth does next.

00:30:24: I'm sure thats true But only so many companies offered and those who did And didn't go with them.

00:30:31: We are forever grateful for their offers and enthusiasm.

00:30:33: Sumerian showed the greatest amount by a decent margin

00:30:37: Seven number

00:30:41: let's call it mid to high seven figures.

00:30:43: So, you know in this market That's a huge financial commitment.

00:30:47: that's a great outcome.

00:30:48: and that's also not just a great Outcome for the investors.

00:30:50: It's a commitment that they are making to the film as A business that they need to now go and recoup.

00:30:55: which means?

00:30:55: They have to push This film to make it work For them financially there running of Business too.

00:30:59: And so when thinking about why do You go with The distributor you want whoever is going To be most invested?

00:31:04: he told us this Is gonna Be you know the flagship, I don't want to say that they don't care about all of films on their slate.

00:31:12: But this is a different type of movie for them and hopefully it's going be something that will get people to talk about in three years.

00:31:22: so we just saw there was a partner who maybe had as much skin in game like us could.

00:31:30: And

00:31:31: so right now you're really busy, So your gonna probably work with Bess on her next movie.

00:31:35: You are working with Bradley Corbett in his next project.

00:31:38: Tell us about what's next for you for your production company, Kaplan Morissette.

00:31:43: We were lucky enough to work with both Brady and Mona on their last films.

00:31:47: again.

00:31:47: that's entirely my producing partners.

00:31:50: credit goes him in much more so to Brady & Mona of course And there are other long-time collaborators.

00:31:55: I feel a little bit sheepish talking about Work That i'm only involved With because it lives under our roof.

00:32:01: It is small roof So you get some credits?

00:32:03: It

00:32:03: IS Small Roof.

00:32:04: They're collaborators and friends and filmmakers we love enough to keep working with.

00:32:10: So yes, we can't really talk about Brady's next film other than to say there has been stuff reported in the press that perhaps as a production company will get to be involved with it and perhaps it'll shoot someday into future between now when all die or not because you never know but could five minutes from now if thats life.

00:32:30: Tell me something is still possible to retain filmmakers like that?

00:32:38: Oscars etc.

00:32:38: Is it possible to retain them in the independent circuit or do they get stolen by studios?

00:32:45: Well, I think stolons are hard like

00:32:47: poached.

00:32:48: yeah i mean It's challenging right?

00:32:50: because um well We all have agency.

00:32:53: so you know everybody gets make a decision about what They want from their career.

00:32:57: also everyone has to Make The Decision About who they Want as collaborators.

00:33:00: I Think the Filmmakers Who Are Lucky enough To Keep Working With Again and again And Don't think I'm speaking out of turn to say, you know.

00:33:10: My partner Andrew worked with Mona on The World To Come and then he worked her on the Testament Of Ann Lee.

00:33:17: so those are filmmakers we've been lucky enough for a few years now.

00:33:21: Filmmakers that work again because it was good collaboration Because we have trust We speak same-shared language And want do.

00:33:30: if You aren't able to keep working With filmmaker as producer Ultimately That's On You And or the filmmaker, but I don't think that's...I would never blame in studios for that.

00:33:40: I take personal responsibility.

00:33:42: if i don't get to keep working with someone and That may be because I wasn't a good collaborator Or that maybe?

00:33:48: Because I Don't want to work with them again.

00:33:50: Um it's not you know It's-that's The truth right.

00:33:53: um and that's okay.

00:33:54: and also thats no one business But us.

00:33:56: But also heard that Braddy wants final cut.

00:33:58: He want to shoot in a sixty five millimeters like it's very specific, right?

00:34:03: Well I mean again i wouldn't read everything thats printed.

00:34:05: nobody from our side has ever said anything on the record about any of this.

00:34:10: but what will say is In America filmmakers are not given Final Cut.

00:34:15: we as company believe in film makers having creative freedom and so he wanted try an afford as much of that is possible in a system that does not believe.

00:34:23: I think however Brady wants to make his next film or any other filmmakers we're working with, it's important.

00:34:29: films are an event and they stand out on the market.

00:34:33: so large format filmmaking shooting on film projecting your films on seventy millimeter as we have done on both Brutalist and Dan Lee and theatrical partners, exhibition partners who have allowed the films to be released in that way.

00:34:49: Think as producers we think it's really important.

00:34:52: budget does not dictate what is an event What dictates concept, execution and trying to think about how you distinguish yourself from everybody else.

00:35:02: And so it doesn't take a hundred million dollars to shoot a film on VistaVision.

00:35:06: It just takes creativity, willingness desire... ...and ultimately a filmmaker who has the vision to say I have a film that will be better served made in this way.

00:35:16: So as company we want do that For myself.

00:35:19: The next film i'll produce Hope, I'd like to believe is a sequel.

00:35:25: To um A film i made many years ago called it follows.

00:35:28: of course we all know that movie.

00:35:30: It's been many years in the making.

00:35:32: this the sequel it will hopefully shoot In The Months to come.

00:35:36: We are actively in the casting process.

00:35:43: Partners in both US and internationally to release the film is by no means guaranteed that it will happen.

00:35:49: There are still things to be figured out ultimately.

00:35:53: But those things we figured out are entirely in the control of people trying to make a movie as always.

00:35:58: Neon?

00:35:58: Who's doing that?

00:35:59: Yes, Neon and the

00:36:00: U.S.,

00:36:01: then Neon did international sales on film in twenty-twenty two.

00:36:06: so again many years into making.

00:36:09: actually David Mitchell has even since made another film with Warner Brothers.

00:36:15: This has been a long road, and I hope that will be the film we'll make this summer.

00:36:20: And then there are several other films... ...that we hope to make in next year-to-eighteen months That have not yet been announced.

00:36:26: that probably shouldn't talk about quite yet But I would say that truthfully.. ..I could NOT be any more excited with one of the lowest budget than the biggest or least experienced filmmaker Because those films will all be special

00:36:42: Beautiful!

00:36:48: I'm in post-production on a film right now that we are hopefully get a picture locked very soon.

00:36:52: That is the first feature.

00:36:53: I don't know how many more first features will make.

00:36:55: um, that might be The last one.

00:36:57: just because i like having hair i'd like to keep it.

00:37:00: You have a lot of hair thank

00:37:01: you

00:37:01: but do you have a hairstylist?

00:37:04: I Don't even brush this.

00:37:05: This Is Just Jewish Curls.

00:37:07: Honestly I Have To Watch The New Cut Maybe Tonight.

00:37:11: I think it's incredible.

00:37:12: i don't want to over-hype but, not just because we've pulled off a small miracle in making this film That was so hard, as hard as any film I've ever made.

00:37:44: work around.

00:37:45: what's happening rightly is trying to shine a light on brutality against the Jews in the nineteen thirties, conflict in the Middle East today.

00:38:03: It's so complicated—the world that we live in is so complicated and to make a film that hopefully comes at it with empathy and curiosity towards how do we think about this as collective humanity?

00:38:20: We, ourselves are not saying how you should think about it but just presents questions.

00:38:24: I hope the film does justice by that ambition and have a sneaking suspicion at will And once we premiere it i'm sure would be very hard to sell.

00:38:31: Well

00:38:31: for sure did you finance

00:38:34: it?

00:38:34: The film is still only partially financed.

00:38:36: if any of your financiers please come up with me afterwards Because we

00:38:41: pitched really well.

00:38:42: Thank You But It sounds like ten hour movie

00:38:45: Is ninety four minutes Plus credits, it's breezy.

00:38:49: It's sexy.

00:38:50: It occasionally funny.

00:38:55: Schopenhauer and Leibniz, Lenny Reifenstahl.

00:38:59: America Today in America a hundred years ago And everything else.

00:39:03: so it's uh It's a real meal.

00:39:06: It's the first feature.

00:39:07: So writer director producer editor who I don't just count as a collaborator i call him A friend.

00:39:12: what

00:39:12: his name?

00:39:12: His names?

00:39:13: Gabriel Nussbaum.

00:39:14: Uh everyone will know his name In a few months.

00:39:16: and yeah The film has been financed with tiny checks.

00:39:20: Fifty thousand dollars, a hundred thousand dollars at the time.

00:39:23: We still are missing about a million dollars.

00:39:25: The film is still financed on loans that I don't know how we're gonna pay back?

00:39:29: We are personally as company Have our the lender and so we can't pay our bills until we get money out of the films.

00:39:36: So anybody who's a financier please come and save me afterwards.

00:39:40: But also if we don't get the loans out God help me It's going to be okay because the movie very good in it will find its way.

00:39:46: Amazing,

00:39:47: congratulations!

00:39:48: So inspiring.

00:39:49: You're so inspiring Okay...so off we go.

00:39:59: Thank you everyone.

00:40:00: Thanks

00:40:00: for having me

00:40:05: A warm thank-you to our wonderful speaker David Kaplan For sharing his insight on Josephine And of course thanks dear listeners For joining us and being part this journey.

00:40:14: That's all from todays episode.

00:40:16: This season of industry insights is produced in cooperation with Variety and Co-Founded by Creative Europe Media.

00:40:24: Be sure to subscribe, help spread the word!

00:40:28: You can find us wherever you get your podcasts & also on the European Film Market website at www.efm-berlinali.com.

00:40:39: We look forward to welcoming to future episodes of industry insights.

00:40:44: Thank you for listening and goodbye!